Curse

Etta · Jul 22, 2008, 01:03 PM // 13:03

lol, I knew someone would come in and say that.

Just messin' around, Guv.

Tyla · Jul 22, 2008, 01:03 PM // 13:03

The legendary Ranger, Tyla Salarani.

Taurucis · Jul 22, 2008, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

Why isn't it a Role-playing game? It would be nice to know the reason behind why such a popular series isn't an RPG, when its marketed as one. It's especially nice to know since you haven't given any reason yet. I am curious to know.

Look at some rather popular RPGs... MM7, Oblivion, and Morrowind for example. You can alter your character's storyline.

In MM7 you can choose the path of Good or Evil, depending on which you choose you will get a different ending.

In Morrowind and Oblivion you don't even have to touch the main quest, you can pretend that the main quests aren't even happening and you can role-play your character to be anything... a mage, a thief, a mercenary, an assassin, whatever you want. You are in complete control of your character's story and what happens to him/her.

However in Final Fantasy (10 comes to mind, that's the one I've played) you have to play a linear story. Yes you can customize your characters, but I'd like to see you take a warrior class and boost his (I say his because Final Fantasy is famous for giving women the weak shitty classes) magic stats to something that can rival a mage.

You can do that in Morrowind and Oblivion. You can't in Final Fantasy. I know you can't do that in Might and Magic 7 but magic works kind of different in that game... there is a class which has good fighting stats and good magic (Paladin)

And how much can you control the ending of a Final Fantasy game? (again, I'm thinking 10 in particular) There's only one ending I know. Maybe you can affect a couple of non-important bits in the story, but you still follow a linear route to a pre-planned ending that you have no control over.

That's why Final Fantasy is an interactive story, not an RPG. In an RPG you play the role of your character, in Final Fantasy you follow the story of the main character.

And RPGs usually never have such horrible combat systems as Final Fantasy.

around · Jul 22, 2008, 01:45 PM // 13:45

I believe the distinction between interactive story and RPG is a bit like the distinction between Indo-technical speed deathcore and Phrygian melodic brutal thrash metal.

(ie largely arbitary and unfounded)

(i just randomly strung a load of adjectives together)

If people insist on slicing their pie that thinly though, it's their own prerogative.

Crom The Pale · Jul 22, 2008, 02:05 PM // 14:05

RPG = Role Playing Game.

It could be said that in every game you play the "role" of the main charatcer however it is traditionally thought that an RPG is a game A) that takes place in a Fantasy setting(sword/magic) and B) where you CREATE that character you control. The level of creation however can vary, anything from total look/name/stats/profession/weapons/items/ect to simply being able to change what direction they wish to move in the game. Some games offer you multiple story paths, other do not, but this is not integral to be an RPG.

Final Fantasy (most of them at least) allow you to control the development of the character as a form of creating your own character. As far as control of the story, the final end may be set in stone(assuming you win) but the path you take to get there is not.

Final Fantasy, like Castlevania, is an RPG just not with a vast amount of control over certain aspects of the character and story.

Note* Castlevania has 5 different possible endings depending upon your actions.

Taurucis · Jul 22, 2008, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

RPG = Role Playing Game.

Or Rocket Propelled Grenade, but those aren't quite as fun (and safe) to play with as a Role Playing Game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

It could be said that in every game you play the "role" of the main charatcer however it is traditionally thought that an RPG is a game A) that takes place in a Fantasy setting(sword/magic) and B) where you CREATE that character you control. The level of creation however can vary, anything from total look/name/stats/profession/weapons/items/ect to simply being able to change what direction they wish to move in the game. Some games offer you multiple story paths, other do not, but this is not integral to be an RPG.

Look at how Final Fantasy doesn't allow you to go far from the storyline. If you can't really decide how the story progresses, you're following a story, not playing a role.

You don't create a character in Final Fantasy. You play with the characters that you're given.

That is why I say, if Final Fantasy is considered an RPG, then Halo could be considered an RPG as well. You're playing as a preset character, you have no control over a linear storyline, and no matter what you do you'll always end up at a predetermined ending.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Final Fantasy (most of them at least) allow you to control the development of the character as a form of creating your own character. As far as control of the story, the final end may be set in stone(assuming you win) but the path you take to get there is not.

Usually, RPGs are more about the story than just character creation.

When I want to role-play a character, I want it to be an immersive world. If I'm going to do something, I want to see it affect the storyline. I don't want to see "you can't do that, try something else" if I'm about to make a bad decision. Basically, I don't want little invisible hands pushing me towards an ending that the game creators planned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Final Fantasy, like Castlevania, is an RPG just not with a vast amount of control over certain aspects of the character and story.

Then that's not really an RPG... if you can't control the story or your character, it's more like you're following a predetermined path. As some guy in IRC said, "Final Fantasy is an interactive movie."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Note* Castlevania has 5 different possible endings depending upon your actions.

And Final Fantasy doesn't.

RiKio · Jul 22, 2008, 02:35 PM // 14:35

He wins

PD: Zalbaar is Revan
PD2: Bastila>Liara.
PD3: <3 Bastila and Liara.

DreamRunner · Jul 22, 2008, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Look at some rather popular RPGs... MM7, Oblivion, and Morrowind for example. You can alter your character's storyline.

In MM7 you can choose the path of Good or Evil, depending on which you choose you will get a different ending.

In Morrowind and Oblivion you don't even have to touch the main quest, you can pretend that the main quests aren't even happening and you can role-play your character to be anything... a mage, a thief, a mercenary, an assassin, whatever you want. You are in complete control of your character's story and what happens to him/her.

However in Final Fantasy (10 comes to mind, that's the one I've played) you have to play a linear story. Yes you can customize your characters, but I'd like to see you take a warrior class and boost his (I say his because Final Fantasy is famous for giving women the weak shitty classes) magic stats to something that can rival a mage.

You can do that in Morrowind and Oblivion. You can't in Final Fantasy. I know you can't do that in Might and Magic 7 but magic works kind of different in that game... there is a class which has good fighting stats and good magic (Paladin)

And how much can you control the ending of a Final Fantasy game? (again, I'm thinking 10 in particular) There's only one ending I know. Maybe you can affect a couple of non-important bits in the story, but you still follow a linear route to a pre-planned ending that you have no control over.

That's why Final Fantasy is an interactive story, not an RPG. In an RPG you play the role of your character, in Final Fantasy you follow the story of the main character.

So, Guild Wars isn't an RPG either. Massive multiplayer interactive movie?

But let me get this straight. You've only played one Final Fantasy game, yet you say that Final Fantasy is famous for giving women shitty classes? Uhm, okay. And so, where else are you getting your sources?

But aside from that, I do get your point. However, isn't RPG (Role-Playing Game) defined as creating or following a story? And if its about how much interaction of the characters towards the story then isn't that much fault of defining the term RPG. As far as I know, as long as there is at least some interaction, then it can be called an RPG.

Etta · Jul 22, 2008, 03:17 PM // 15:17

What about San Andreas? CJ has more RPG elements and character development than that Dracula's kid.

Taurucis · Jul 22, 2008, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

So, Guild Wars isn't an RPG either. Massive multiplayer interactive movie?

But let me get this straight. You've only played one Final Fantasy game, yet you say that Final Fantasy is famous for giving women shitty classes? Uhm, okay. And so, where else are you getting your sources?

But aside from that, I do get your point. However, isn't RPG (Role-Playing Game) defined as creating or following a story? And if its about how much interaction of the characters towards the story then isn't that much fault of defining the term RPG. As far as I know, as long as there is at least some interaction, then it can be called an RPG.

Anet has stated that Guild Wars is a PvP game. Usually, PvP games aren't RPGs...

Wikipedia.

Look at most of the girls in Final Fantasy... they're all mages, you hardly (if ever) find warriors, they're dressed like skanks, and they're ridiculously dependent on males. They don't play major roles, the most important role they ever play is "boyfriend of the main character" or something.

RPGs are usually more of creating your own story... Final Fantasy is following a story that has been created by someone else.

Etta · Jul 22, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Look at most of the girls in Final Fantasy... they're all mages, you hardly (if ever) find warriors.

Depend on the game. Terra, Celes, Payne, Rikku (X2 yey! wanna fight about it?) Tifa, That ninja from 7, whatsherface from FF8..Rinoa? The other 2 from 8 as well, Ash and that bunny girl. These are major characters and none of them are mages, they can cast spells yeah but they are more....dual class rather than single class.

As for their dress sense, they're just fine as they are.

Taurucis · Jul 22, 2008, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etta

Depend on the game. Terra, Celes, Payne, Rikku (X2 yey! wanna fight about it?) Tifa, That ninja from 7, whatsherface from FF8..Rinoa? The other 2 from 8 as well, Ash and that bunny girl. These are major characters and none of them are mages, they can cast spells yeah but they are more....dual class rather than single class.

As for their dress sense, they're just fine as they are.

X-2 is pure fanservice, Tifa serves as the typical "girlfriend of the main character" archetype, and I've never played (or seen) FF8 before.

And Rikku is a slut.

Bryant Again · Jul 22, 2008, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

RPGs are usually more of creating your own story... Final Fantasy is following a story that has been created by someone else.

So playing a DnD campaign isn't roleplaying?

Crom The Pale · Jul 22, 2008, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Based on the logic put forth so far then NO game can be called an RPG, since every game has some blocks you can not get past. Every game that has a "WIN" scenario is therefore not an RPG.

An RPG must therefore be completely open ended, have no possible outcome that brings the game to any conclusion save your death..of old age.

RPG's can NOT be that limited. They are simply put games that let you play a role in what happens, maybe you can change the outcome or how the character gets to the end. Maybe the character has some personal enlightenment you must experiance with them. Maybe they need to save the world!

Its all just a game, a means of excaping the real world and experiancing something completely unlike what you live with from day to day.

If you wanna call HALO an RPG I won't stop you, but I did say FANTASY at the start, not SCI-FI!

komma · Jul 22, 2008, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Zelda%20OoT%20Cucco.jpg

1234567890

Grumpy · Jul 22, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etta

Well technically speaking, you do take the role of someone else in every games. Therefore on that account, ladies and gents, I give you....
Maximilian Payne. One cop, a full clip and a whole lotta pain killer.

"Pain to da max!"

Max, dearest of all my friends. Time to reinstall both of those and play them again.

Lest121 · Jul 22, 2008, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

RPGs are usually more of creating your own story... Final Fantasy is following a story that has been created by someone else.

Say what..........then what was I playing 11 years ago? an action adventure? a love story drama emo game? a sports game with a story?

Murmel · Jul 22, 2008, 10:42 PM // 22:42

EDIT: Chaned my entire post, this guy, he would win hehe...

Oh yes, Geralt from The Witcher.
He's got it all; sword skills, charm

, a cool scar across the eye, alchemy skills, magic....

Probably something more that I've forgotten...

Oh yes, he can spot enemies with his "enemy spotter" thingy (dunno what it's called...)

Taurucis · Jul 22, 2008, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Based on the logic put forth so far then NO game can be called an RPG, since every game has some blocks you can not get past. Every game that has a "WIN" scenario is therefore not an RPG.

An RPG must therefore be completely open ended, have no possible outcome that brings the game to any conclusion save your death..of old age.

RPG's can NOT be that limited. They are simply put games that let you play a role in what happens, maybe you can change the outcome or how the character gets to the end. Maybe the character has some personal enlightenment you must experiance with them. Maybe they need to save the world!

Its all just a game, a means of excaping the real world and experiancing something completely unlike what you live with from day to day.

If you wanna call HALO an RPG I won't stop you, but I did say FANTASY at the start, not SCI-FI!

That's the thing about quite a few RPGs - after you finish the main quest, some of them don't end. Look at Might and Magic 7, my brother has a level 200+ party, he finished the storyline at about level 50 or so. And especially Oblivion/Morrowind. You don't even have to touch the main quest, but even if you do finish the main quest you can still keep playing in the world.

I don't recall Final Fantasy 10 letting you continue playing a savegame after you finished the storyline.

AidinSwiftarrow · Jul 23, 2008, 02:50 AM // 02:50

I know, I was tired ^_^

UMMMM

For sure then. Link FTW!